Join me in conversation with Catskill fly fishing authority (and fly fishing in general!) John Shaner. Warning, he tells a GREAT story...
Catskill Fly Fishing History
The world famous Catskill Museum is a wonderful resource for the global fly fishing "tribe". Knowing what I do about John Shaner's own personal collections, it's probably not too big of a stretch to suggest that he could count as his own "wing" of the museum!
Catskills Resident John Shaner has travelled the world to fish
Although I'll keep this post as concise as possible , it is definitely worth highlighting some significant organisations, characters as they relate to our conversation above.
Catskill Fly Fishing Center and Museum (CFFCM)
Established with Elsie Derby as its first president in 1979, and formally constituted in 1981, the museum's current location was adopted in 1982. It sits on a 35-acre farm on the banks of the Willowemoc Creek. Being a tributary of the world-famous Beaverkill - the Willowemoc places the museum at the epicentre of American fly fishing traditions.
Figures including Theodore Gordon and flies such as the Quill Gordon and the Light Cahill (e.g below) are synonymous with the area. There seems to be a natural reciprocal appreciation between anglers of the Yorkshire Dales and the Catskills. North Country Spider aficionado Robert L Smith (who both John Shaner and myself know and fish with from time to time), wrote a great account of his visit in 2017. In Rob's piece you'll also find some photos of the wonderful set of flies (and the hatch chart) given to him by Dave Brandt - who is also mentioned in our conversation video above.
A Light Cahill dressed by Robert Smith following his visit to the Catskill Fly Fishing Centre and Museum
Along with current Directors John Kovach and Rob Ceccarini - the Fly Fishing Center counts on a dedicated collection of staff, trustees and advisors - including Joan Wulff who, again, appears in Rob's article linked above.
Dette Flies
In terms of American fly fishing history, Dette Trout Flies NY needs to be mentioned as - established in 1928 - it's the world's oldest surviving fly shop. The business recently proved to be as relevant, pro-active and significant as ever by being one of 250 outdoor organisations calling on the president to deny the permit application for the Pebble Mine, Bristol Bay.
The working desks of Walt Dette and daughter Mary Dette Clark also feature within the CFFCM collection to recognise their part in the fly fishing history of the region.
Hardy Fly Fishing & Technical Advice of John Shaner
I've mentioned the Lost World of Mr Hardy in my article that supports the Fishing Discoveries In Conversation with Howard Croston before. Here is some additional context that looks at the current and future direction of the company (to build on the picture of their renowned historic place within English and global fly fishing). John Shaner is a technical advisor for the Pure Fishing & Hardy companies.
John Shaner & Sylvester Nemes: Soft-hackle Addicts
A name that crops up over and over again when talking about soft hackle trout flies in the USA is Sylvester Nemes. John mentions that he felt fortunate to get to know Sylvester a little bit and I'm sure a mutual admiration for wet flies with game-bird hackles would make them a very natural pairing.
Sylvester Nemes was born in 1922 to Romanian Parents in Erie Pennsylvania. He grew up in Cleveland, Ohio and fished there as well as Pennsylvania (also living for a time in Hampshire, England - home of English chalkstream fishing).
Nemes was a prolific author who published his first book "The Soft Hackled Fly" on the subject in 1975. I came across a listing of some fascinating papers and biographical details on this page of the Montana State University Library.
Vincent Marinaro - Dry Fly AND Wet Fly Fan
Possibly the most famous dry fly advocate and author of the American fly fishing tradition, Vincent Marinaro had a fiercely technical mind (and also a talented linguist - speaking 11 languages). You can find more details like this in this memorial article to Marinaro. Judging from the admiration for his iconic work "In the Ring of the Rise", I am sure most fly fishers would be astonished to hear John Shaner's tale from our interview. The final fish Marinaro caught in his life, before succumbing to Leukemia in 1986, was caught on a soft-hackle wet fly.
Here is a quick phone-snap from John's personal collection showing that framed and signed selection of Marinaro's soft-hackle wet flies:
Of course, as John mentions in the interview, it turns out that Marinaro didn't extend his appreciation of soft hackle wet flies to the flies of the Catskill fly fishing tradition. I guess we can't expect everything to have such neat symmetry - especially when it comes to fly fishing.
Let me know in the comments if you'd like to hear/see more from John from the banks of a river sometime.
Paul
Two extremely interesting gents ! Love listening to John.
Thanks Bob – and you’re right it’s great just to set John off on a story and sit back…
Paul
Please tell John that he popped into my head recently. Ask him if he remembers his poem “Killing Rainbows” and World Lit.
Patricia, thank you so much for this – I will certainly ask John that the next time we speak.
Very best wishes,
Paul
Can’t believe that was an hour, I was engrossed. Was as enjoyable as an hour on stream. Highlight for me was the bit about fly dressing…….“trout don’t change, we change”.
So glad you enjoyed it Gary, it was a very easy job for me – John has such a wealth of great experiences and stories. Paul
Wonderful video. Very interesting topics covered
Thank you Paul, I’m really glad you enjoyed it – as it is one of our longer pieces (which is always a bit of a gamble in these “attention-span-starved” times).
Paul
A pleasure and a joy to be sure Paul. Rick
Thank you Rick – very kind of you to say. I hope it is obvious that I very much enjoyed the conversation (whether or not we were recording it).
Paul
Paul. I very enjoyed the conversation. It is so wonderful to see my passion has been passions of so many for a very long time. You are recording for the future fisherman who will hang onto every word as we do now. Fly fishing is so much more than catching.
Walter Welty.
Thank you Walter – I’m so glad you enjoyed the chat as much as I did while I was having it! Certainly one to continue in future whenever we get chance.
Paul